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The Arab League has recommended withdrawing support for indirect talks between Palestinians and Israelis due to recent announcements of new....
nbc4i.com
Mar 10, 2010 10:24 pm
An Ohio apartment listing for a “bachelor pad” has drawn a federal discrimination lawsuit.
nbc4i.com
Mar 10, 2010 10:23 pm
The Ohio Supreme Court has agreed to weigh the constitutionality of a 2006 state law that lifted most local gun restrictions.
nbc4i.com
Mar 10, 2010 10:20 pm
Packs of wily coyotes are not running wild in Worthington neighborhoods, but they are out there, and residents should take steps to protect their....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 8:28 pm
Westerville City Schools' administrators will not ask the school board to look at realigning district attendance boundaries to deal with overflow....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 8:26 pm
Pickerington's city engineer may seek help from the Ohio Department of Transportation to improve one of central Ohio's most dangerous stretches of....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 8:19 pm
Powell City Council has agreed to hire a tax incentive review management service to help the city review its downtown tax increment financing....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 8:17 pm
Some local farmers have decided the best way to sell produce is directly to consumers.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 8:16 pm
The New Albany research and information district continues to take shape.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 8:14 pm
For the first time ever, Hilliard City Council met in executive session Monday night to discuss what council president Brett Sciotto called "a....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 8:07 pm
The Ohio School Boards Association reworded a section of its Web site describing a training session called "Levy University."
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:41 pm
Grove City Town Center Inc. volunteers want to encourage property development and entice new businesses downtown this year.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:40 pm
Grove City Mayor Richard "Ike" Stage wants to find a site in the town center by 2011 for what his administration calls the "center of learning."
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:40 pm
Gahanna City Council is continuing to obtain properties for its Hamilton Road improvements.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:36 pm
Gahanna staff members who have been working in cramped quarters want to take advantage of space left vacant when the city's tax department dissolved....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:35 pm
Although it's been in business for less than a year, Sugar Inc. Cupcakes and Tea Salon has caught the attention of the Food Network.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:25 pm
Something "uncommon" was found in Dublin after residents completed the National Citizen Survey.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:24 pm
The birth of a bonobo at the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium last week was the result of a "complicated process," said Audra Meinelt, head keeper of....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:23 pm
Mountain or molehill, the issue of extending voting to the homebound proved to be more than Clintonville Area Commission members wanted to climb in....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:19 pm
Just before voting against a request allowing Wesley Glen to build a parking lot on property currently zoned for homes, Clintonville Area Commission....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:18 pm
The Canal Winchester planning and zoning commission took the first step Monday toward giving the owners of 41 downtown properties the right to....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 7:12 pm
The trial is under way for a man accused of molesting a patient just hours after she gave birth. Get the details.
10TV - News
Mar 10, 2010 6:35 pm
Republican candidate John Kasich continues to talk about tax cuts for Ohioans, but he has not yet said what he'll cut to make that possible. Kasich....
Ohio 15th District
Mar 10, 2010 6:31 pm
The pre-employment background check has become more and more common - especially after the attacks of September 11th 2001. Most employers and....
WOSU
Mar 10, 2010 6:28 pm
A school district returns to normal after an outbreak of a highly contagious skin infection. Learn more.
10TV - News
Mar 10, 2010 6:18 pm
President Barack Obama today nominated U.S. District Court Judge Kathleen McDonald O
The Daily Briefing
Mar 10, 2010 6:00 pm
A day after a man shoots two co-workers before turning the gun on himself, investigators are trying to piece together what led to the violence. Get....
10TV - News
Mar 10, 2010 5:51 pm
Kroger Co. on Wednesday filed a federal suit against Excentus Corp., which has demanded the grocer obtain a license to expand its fuel rewards....
Business First of Columbus
Mar 10, 2010 5:37 pm
The war of words continues between Sen. Sherrod Brown and the U.S. Department of Energy over the use of federal dollars from last year
The Daily Briefing
Mar 10, 2010 5:35 pm
A federal bill extending unemployment benefits and providing other tax breaks also would bring about $750 million more in stimulus dollars to....
Business First of Columbus
Mar 10, 2010 5:28 pm
The Reynoldsburg High School girls basketball team's primary goal was not a secret.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 5:15 pm
The Columbus Blue Jackets' logo seems to be popular outside Ohio these days. Learn why.
10TV - News
Mar 10, 2010 5:13 pm
American Eagle Outfitters Inc. and Abercrombie & Fitch Co. apparently overestimated their ability to hang on to their aging teenage customers.....
Business First of Columbus
Mar 10, 2010 5:02 pm
It may take some time before the Upper Arlington High School boys basketball team fully appreciates all its accomplishments this season.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 5:01 pm
When top-seeded DeSales faces the third-seeded Bexley High School boys basketball team in a Division II district championship at 6 p.m. Friday at....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:59 pm
Dublin Coffman High School hockey coach Perry Pooley decided to utilize a more defensive style against Centerville in a district final last....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:59 pm
First-year coach Geoff Gear believes his seniors were crucial to the success of the St. Charles Preparatory School swimming team.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:58 pm
The Hartley High School wrestling team hopes the experience gained at the Division II state tournament, which concluded last Saturday at Ohio State,....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:57 pm
Westerville North High School wrestler Josh Demas left his mark on the program at the Division I state tournament last Saturday at Ohio State....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:53 pm
The Canal Winchester High School wrestling team was represented at the Division II state tournament by Brady Hutchins and Conrad Rosch. At the....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:52 pm
The Watterson High School boys basketball team has beaten Canal Winchester by narrow margins in their previous two meetings. The Eagles won 76-67....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:49 pm
The City League-South Division's postseason reign at the district level continued last weekend for the Eastmoor Academy and Africentric girls....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:44 pm
Dublin Coffman High School boys basketball coach Jamey Collins knew one thing was certain minutes after his team had knocked off fourth-seeded Upper....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:40 pm
Just in time for its bicentennial, the City of Columbus will introduce a new bridge connecting the west side to downtown. Officials say the....
WOSU
Mar 10, 2010 4:39 pm
Union County has secured its first business to set up shop at the Marysville Entrepreneurial Center.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:34 pm
Dublin Scioto High School gymnasts Minori Minagawa and Paige Waugh did their best to remain calm at the state meet last Saturday at Hilliard....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:34 pm
The Dublin Scioto High School swimming and diving program continues to produce quality athletes.
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:33 pm
Chuck Crawford spent the last nine years as an assistant coach with the Bexley High School girls soccer team, helping the Lions maintain their....
ThisWeek News
Mar 10, 2010 4:29 pm
Ah but you see? Even this tenet by Smith is under attack these days. Do you recall how just last month we heard about a study on altruism and people being hard-wired for that?
I appreciate this post, Bryan - I think it’s fair re: this isn’t going to end, you’re not going to end it with saying, She’s wrong, I’m right - or whatever. I can accept that.
But again, just to re-assert something here, because your opening sentence here is 100% related to your inferences of what I’ve written and in NO WAY reflects ANYTHING I believe about government (when you want to talk about what size gov’t should be, let me know - but you know and I know that I wasn’t writing about that and that it’s just your hook into the blog post, k? k):
My world view couldn’t be further from acceptance of that statement by Adam Smith. That is NOT to say that I do not recognize that many people DO hold that viewpoint and in fact act in that manner.
But it is not mine. Just as promotion of large gov’t bureaucracies is also not an idea I have ever written about, let alone endorse.
Okay?
I love a good debate, with intelligence and facts and passion. But not twisting and turning others’ words or intentions. That’s all.
When your response to the post is longer than the original post, methinks tis not Brian who is twisting and turning words.
School choice would be beneficial for parents sending their children to private Jewish schools- But Jill prays at the altar of big government more than at her synagogue.
Matt, no government spending or private profit would ever be enough to contain, correct or otherwise treat or cure your malignant narcissism (see here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism).
I’ve given you advice privately, you don’t take it. You are stuck with yourself. Good luck with that.
Fair enough. I do say that you don’t put it that way. That’s my take. The govt handles education through a large bureaucracy, so to whatever extent you’re defending the status quo, you’re implicitly defending that. Unless you explicitly don’t. It’s not the main point anyway.
And yes, a certain amount of altruism is hard-wired. But it’s not enough to support any endeavor on a large scale. If it was, communism would work. It’s effect diminishes with perceived distance.
But I doubt there’s much difference in the altruism of teachers who work for the govt vs those who work for a for-profit company. The public teachers’ unions never say “no more pay increases for us, thanks- this job is its own reward.” The unions fight for every dollar in the selfish, material interests of their members. As they should.
There will be no resolution to this argument because it is about beliefs and philosophy, not facts and science. I’m okay with that.
But I sure would like to do this experiment: to take one of the metro areas in Ohio and run it as single school system with open enrollment. The only function of the central office would be financial operations and transportation. Sets of school buildings would be free to band together in administrative and purchasing groups, or a building could choose to operate on its own. All schools would be required to offer the core subjects required in the current curriculum. Elective courses and extracurricular activities would be optional, but free if offered.
No new money would be allocated from the State, but the amount of state money that follows each kid would be the same regardless of where the kid lives, or what school he elects to attend. Likewise property tax millage rates would be equalized across the metro district so that the same aggregate amount of money is raised as today, but the same amount of money follows each kid, just like the state money. The effect is that per-pupil funding is identical for every kid regardless of school selected.
Special needs would have extra money that follows them. To be accredited in this new system, a school must accept special needs kids in proportion to their total student population. However, a school may form an alliance with one or more other schools satisfy this requirement.
This is not exactly my best-case approach, but it is one which maintains the public school system to satisfy folks who feel like Jill, albeit at a metro rather than municipal level. There would be no charter schools, just free choice of any public school in the area.
This doesn’t fix funding problems in agricultural areas, or Appalachia. I don’t think we can fix the suburban, farmland, and Appalachian situations with one bullet anyway.
What objection do you have to this approach, Jill? Please don’t just say you don’t like it. Suggest what you would change about the experiment, understanding that it’s not exactly what I want either.
PL
Actually, as hard or as unusual as it might be or seem, I completely compartmentalize a lot of these issues/topics, even though I do not see the bureaucracy issue as inextricable from education, though obviously it exists.
I also would say that I’m not defending the status quo - although yes, I can understand how reading what I write about the for-profits could be seen that way, but remember - not all charters are for-profits. My objection to for-profits is just that - an objection to for-profits.
I’m on the record repeatedly in favor of charters that run as originally intended and for the re-establishment of the oversight organization that the legislature created which was later abolished. Charters can fill niches and have success stories - I’ve said all that a few times in my blog and in other places.
As I wrote before, I object to the provision of education as being directed by the motive to make money. I’ve not said anything in depth about big government or unions. If you want to debate those, that would be fine. But I was addressing one element of the education system: for profit charters. I think that was pretty clear and the rest extrapolation.
Unlike others, perhaps, I’m really specific with my words. When I want to address those other elements, it will be very obvious.
Paul - I don’t think anyone would ever accuse me of saying “I just don’t like it” - that’s WAY TOO BRIEF for me.
But I did just finish writing a post that has completely taken all my energy - which was lagging as it was at this time of day.
Quick thoughts: someone I know was just talking to me about being able to send whereever and I cannot for the life of me remember who- I can even hear the conversation. Sorry I can’t remember it exactly.
So - I think, maybe what you’re describing - doesn’t it exist even a little bit in some places? I am not up on what the reviews are of such arrangements. Isn’t even Columbus somewhat like that?
Jill:
I concur that this whole discussion is a matter of degrees. I’d go all the way to free-market solutions, with the State Dept of Ed having the role of establishing minimum curricula, accrediting schools, and administering vouchers. I’ve yielded some aspects of that view to get what I think is the nucleus of the idea - free choice.
The districts of central Ohio are most definitely not proponents of free choice (aka open enrollment). One cannot cross district boundaries without paying extra tuition. In most districts, including ours, you are not even allowed to pick schools within the district. We just went through a redistricting exercise, because an additional elementary and high school will soon come online, and one of the most vocal groups were those who wanted to be sure the kids from their affluent neighborhood didn’t have to be in the same building with the immigrant kids pouring into our district.
To me, restricted choice is the same thing as segregation, and a return to the ’separate-but-equal’ educational philosophy. One would think we grew past that in the 1960s, but I’d argue that it’s worse now than ever. Our urban schools are certainly serving a blacker and poorer population than it did prior to the white-flight to the suburbs, instigated by court-ordered busing, and facilitated by Ohio’s municipal school district structure.
PL
[…] post: Schools and the profit motive, II) Trackback | Posted by Brian | Aug 21, 2007 11:18 am | Permalink | Bookmark Categories: […]